NFL: Manning's Place in History and Top Ten Quarterbacks

The title of this post is self explanitory. Before we delve into some back and forth on the subject, I should offer this caveat: We know his career isn't over yet. We will proceed as if the rest of his career will continue as normal, with him peaking during these prime years, and then a gradual decline into retirement.

Now, once that is all said and done, where do we expect him to rank amongst the all time great quarterbacks in history. The names most discussed for this mantle are: Unitas, Starr, Bradshaw, Montana, Marino, Favre, Elway, Brady, and now Manning.

What's interesting to note is that it seemed like overnight, Manning joined this list. Saj, I'd like your thoughts on not only where he ranks (And these thoughts can develop over several posts) but what you think about his career becoming "validated" with a Superbowl ring. In essence: Did he go from being a great QB to being an all time QB in the two weeks from from January 21st to February 5th? Did a two-week stretch allow him to be discussed with the alltimers?


No. What allows Peyton Manning to be discussed with the alltimers is his statistical dominance and the great potential for that dominance to continue. Everybody knows my feelings on Peyton Manning. But he has exceptional physical gifts, an almost unrivaled work ethic, and a Brady-esque awareness of the rush in the pocket (except with a better offensive line) that ensures he will almost never take a big hit. And because he's a big, pocket guy with a quick release and a great play action fake who plays in a dome, he could play until he's 45 years old.

The reason people perceive Peyton differently, and say that he needed to win "the big one" to be considered truly great, is that Peyton's Colts have been so very good over the last six years or so. He's been consistently left at the doorstep to the Superbowl like Ian on a second date. So he was unfairly labeled a choke artist because he always led his team to dominance only in the regular season. And yes his commercials are terrible, he pouts on the sideline, he's not charismatic, and he looks like he gets his hair cut by a blind, autistic toddler. I wil make fun of those things until the day I die (or the day he gets a new haircut). But you can't deny that he is the best quarterback in the game and probably the best ever. So he's had some pedestrian games against good defenses and good coaches in the playoffs. It happens.

As for the whole idea of validation through championship for guys like Manning, Marino, Barkley, I think its a little over-dramatized. Is Marino a worse quarterback for having never won a Superbowl or Barkley a worse forward for never having won an NBA Championship? I say no. A lot of things affect the outcome of a football or basketball game and many of those things are out of an individual player's control. Except for Alex Rodriguez. He's a choker.

Ian, give me your top ten quarterbacks on our viewing lifetime (let's say late 1980's to present day). This will probably be unprofessional and unreliable but we never made claims to professionalism or reliability.


Done. In reverse order for dramatic effect:
10. Vinny Testeverde - Sixth all time in passing yards and completions, and ninth all time in touchdown passes. Also holds the record for consecutive seasons with a touchdown pass. Bonus points for being the only quarterback to play this year that was playing before the late 80's. The problem was that he never played any big games.

9. Drew Bledsoe - Considered putting him in the Top 1. Record for most passes completed in one game (45), fourth all time in 400 yard games (6), sixth all time in consecutive 300 yard games (4), record for most passes in a game without an interception (70!), third most completions in one season, fifth all time in completions, seventh all time in passing yards. Only 33 years of age so he'll move up those all time charts if he gets a starting job. Won two AFC Championships and was a backup on a Superbowl winning team.

8. Troy Aikman - Makes the list mostly on the merits of three Superbowl championships. Not the strongest arm, not the most talent, but he quarterbacked a dynasty and won Superbowls with two different coaches.

7. Steve Young - Highest passer rating for a career (96.8). Aikman might have two more rings, but he had more time to do it in, and if I had to start a team with the early 90's quarterbacks, I'd take Young before Aikman.

6. Peyton Manning - Stats will be top 3 across the board and he has a Superbowl ring.

5. Tom Brady - But most of the country would still take this guy in a big spot. Three rings in his first four seasons. His numbers aren't like Mannings, but he's never had offensive lines, receivers, or running backs as good as Peyton Manning. Brady has a better chance than anyone since Bradshaw and Montana to win four Superbowls from the quarterback position. If he can get a fifth, it might be the most desireable record in the sport. And he's only played six seasons.

4. John Elway - Appeared in four Superbowls and won two of them. Fourth all time touchdown passes, third all time passing completions, third all time passing yards, second all time in total yards, NFL record 40 4th quarter comebacks.

3. Dan Marino - He has all the records...until Manning breaks them. The glaring deficiency in the case for Dan Marino is his lack of a championship. Marino has career records in Passing TD's and yards, and is second in completions. All told, he has 20 NFL records.

2. Brett Favre - Remember how Marino is second all time in completions? Well, this guy is first. And he has a Superbowl ring and won a second NFC championship. Based on pure talent and competetiveness alone, you could stack Favre up against any quarterback to ever play the game. I really hope his last couple of years doesn't sully his legendary status.

1. Joe Montana - 11 playoff appearances, nine divisional championships, four Super Bowls (XVI, XIX, XXIII, and XXIV), three Superbowl MVP's, three time all pro, eight time pro-bowler, and the best clutch quarterback of our lifetime.

Disagreements?


Yes. How could you pass up Jim Kelly and Warren Moon for Vinny Testaverde and Drew Bledsoe? I understand how much you love Drew, but come on. That makes as much sense as castrating yourself with rusty, dirty gardening shears. Everyone knows you should sterilize the shears before cutting. Bledsoe and Testaverde are 58 and 67 respectively in all time passer rating. Kelly and Moon: 14 and 31. I'm not saying that passer rating is a perfect stat, in fact I believe it's value has declined over the last ten or fifteen years, but its a good indicator or just how Kelly and Moon were consistently better than Bledsoe and Testaverde. My ten:

10. Troy Aikman - benefitted from a great coach (Jimmy Johnson), and spendthrift owner (Jerry Jones), the all-time leading rusher (Emmitt Smith), and super-talented cokehead receiver (Michael Irvin). But, as you said, he did win three Superbowls. If these rankings were based on concussions, well- okay, I won't say it. But I'll think it. (hint: I'm thinking Aikman-Young as 1A and 1B).

9. Jim Kelly - It's tough to drop Jim Kelly this far down the list, but it's much easier when you see who I placed above him. Kelly was another benefactor of a talented team and a talented coach. Plus I saw him on the Tim McCarver show once and he seems like a really nice guy. Kelly, not McCarver. McCarver is very dumb.

8. Warren Moon - A LOOOONNNGG NFL career allowed Warren to reach 4th and 5th all time in passing yards and touchdowns respectively. And that followed a stint in the CFL where he won five consecutive Grey Cups (like the Superbowl but for Canadians. So it ranks in importance somewhere between the Bud Bowl and that stupid college bowl game they play in Boise.) While I'm making this decision solely based on the little I know about football, you can't ignore the trouble Warren Moon had as a black quarterback in the late 70's to early 80's. Most colleges that recruited him requested that he switch positions and there's speculation that he went undrafted for the same reason.

7. Tom Brady - You said it correctly: three Superbowls in six years. Tom's eleventh all time in QB rating and first all time in my heart. Sigh.

6. Peyton Manning - By the end of his career, he will probably be at the top of this list. And I'll be an old man who is pathetically still making this stupid list for this blog that no one reads. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Peyton Manning is like Alex Rodriguez. Preternaturally talented, works his arse off, but nobody likes him because of those exact reasons.

5. Steve Young - Who knew a short Mormon who ran the West Coast offense would become the Greatest Rushing Quarterback in History B.V. (Before Vick)? Actually, I did. Best all time quarterback rating (ignoring Kurt Warner), gunslinging lefty motion (southpaw here), and the fact that he was traded to San Francisco by Tampa Bay to make way for a young Vinny Testaverde in 1987 made Steve Young my favorite player growing up. When I found out he was born in Connecticut I flipped out.

4. John Elway - My top four are pretty much the same as your top four so I'll spare most of the details. John Elway endorsed the vortex football.

3. Dan Marino - 420 touchdown passes. Not counting Favre (who is six away) the next closest is Fran Tarkenton at 342. Peyton Manning is the next closest active player with 275. Peyton will probably catch him (20 or so touchdowns a year for seven more seasons) but taking a look at Marino's contemporaries and the closest (Elway) he outdistanced by 120 touchdowns. Ninth all time in passer rating over the most attempts in NFL history.

2. Brett Favre - Favre gets the edge over Marino because 1) he will break Marino's yards, TDs, and possibly attempts records before he retires, 2) 7th all time in QB rating, and 3) he either pronounces or spells his name incorrectly. Quite possibly the most fun quarterback to watch play what with the shovel passes and all that stuff.

1. Joe Montana - Undeniably the best. It's hard to say if Marino would own all those records if he had the four Superbowls that Montana had. He might have retired a few years earlier. And it's hard to say that Montana wouldn't have the records Marino had if he didn't win all those Superbowls. Bottom line: second all time in QB rating, The Catch to Dwight Clark, the Superbowls, the Pro Bowls, the stint in Kansas City that never really happened. Even a great quarterback name. Joe Montana.

Honorable Mention: Phil Simms, Drew Bledsoe, Shaun King, and Joe Girardi.


You're right, you're right. Sweet sassy molassey, you're right. I can't make the argument for Bledsoe over Moon because Moon has comparable stats and I can't make the argument for Bledsoe over Kelly because Kelly is the only quarterback to go to four straight Superbowls. I'll say Bledsoe is at #11, and I think Testeverde definitely deserves honorable mention. Other than that, you're right. Unlike you, I can seem to admit when I'm wrong (see Superbowl). BOOYAH.